I Wonder / Question

[blu4ever]

I was going to use "I indict", but thought that harsh for a regime that obviously has done some good things.
But still, even if based on incomplete knowledge by an incomplete fan I have gripes.
1. I think they misjudged this team and poor mouthed their situation regard the cap. I think, like all of us, they played a PR game....we're in terrible shape, wow aren't we good for saving the day.
This team was in a position to compete. For all the lamentations, Jones and Barkley were cheap. Their cap projections was close to the league high next year and teams universally tap into that.
2. James Bradberry should have been resigned. Note this is not hindsight.
3. A returner should have been signed And Adoree Jackson never in a thousand years should have been returning.
4. They spent 18 million on the right guard, and have a hole that can neither pass pro or run block.
A top offensive guard to help Evans, solidify the line and things might be very different.
Bradberry and Adoree out there this week and things might be different.
give me just those three easily obtainable up-grades and I'd think they'd have at least one or more wins and be the favorite this week.
Those aren't reaches either. Teams regulary restructure contracts to push money into the next year. And yes, it's not ideal and yes it might compromise the future. But the projected 85 million could cover Barkley, Jones (should they decide to keep either or both) and still give them room.
BTW, the discredited Hernandez signed for 1.3 million and has, even if marginally, out-played the 6 million per year for three years Glowinsky.
The contract shows how risky free agent signings are, but the regime, so far, has been given a pass.

[CTGiant]

This is the first year of yet another rebuild. You don’t trade away picks or spend future cap space when you’re rebuilding. The roster turnover this offseason will be tremendous. This year was never about winning. It was about establishing Daboll and the new systems in place. It was about evaluating the team’s strengths and weaknesses. Winning more than expected is just a lucky coincidence.

[bluemancrew]

Dec 13, 2022 17:17:13 GMT -5 blu4ever said:

I was going to use "I indict", but thought that harsh for a regime that obviously has done some good things.
But still, even if based on incomplete knowledge by an incomplete fan I have gripes.
1. I think they misjudged this team and poor mouthed their situation regard the cap. I think, like all of us, they played a PR game....we're in terrible shape, wow aren't we good for saving the day.
This team was in a position to compete. For all the lamentations, Jones and Barkley were cheap. Their cap projections was close to the league high next year and teams universally tap into that.
2. James Bradberry should have been resigned. Note this is not hindsight.
3. A returner should have been signed And Adoree Jackson never in a thousand years should have been returning.
4. They spent 18 million on the right guard, and have a hole that can neither pass pro or run block.
A top offensive guard to help Evans, solidify the line and things might be very different.
Bradberry and Adoree out there this week and things might be different.
give me just those three easily obtainable up-grades and I'd think they'd have at least one or more wins and be the favorite this week.
Those aren't reaches either. Teams regulary restructure contracts to push money into the next year. And yes, it's not ideal and yes it might compromise the future. But the projected 85 million could cover Barkley, Jones (should they decide to keep either or both) and still give them room.
BTW, the discredited Hernandez signed for 1.3 million and has, even if marginally, out-played the 6 million per year for three years Glowinsky.
The contract shows how risky free agent signings are, but the regime, so far, has been given a pass.

I’m actually happy with the job Schoen and Daboll have done so far. Has everything been perfect? No…it never is. But they made the correct decision on Jones’ 5th-year option, and if they keep moving in the direction I think they will…I’ll continue to be happy. I’m on the Schoen train until I’m not.

[blu4ever]

CT wrote:
. This year was never about winning"

Ahh CT withdraw, don't just follow the company line on a place where the bloggers are almost universally wrong.
It was not about winning....It's always about winning and sometimes you get close and you think you can improve and come back and you can't...the moment not grabbed never comes bak.
THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABout Winning.
An easy schedule, Saquon and Jones on the cheap. Did they not want to make the previous regime look good?
Look we're in the hunt with Glowinsky, no Jackson and no Braderry (I'm not going to count the McKinney injury and a host of others but Braderry's and Jackson's loss was easily (and maybe properly avoidable.
A good right guard, two all probowl corners and this team would be markedly better. And, the fact is, they're in the hunt without those easily obtained assets.

[EddieNYG]

Dec 13, 2022 17:17:13 GMT -5 blu4ever said:

I was going to use "I indict", but thought that harsh for a regime that obviously has done some good things.
But still, even if based on incomplete knowledge by an incomplete fan I have gripes.
1. I think they misjudged this team and poor mouthed their situation regard the cap. I think, like all of us, they played a PR game....we're in terrible shape, wow aren't we good for saving the day.
This team was in a position to compete. For all the lamentations, Jones and Barkley were cheap. Their cap projections was close to the league high next year and teams universally tap into that.
2. James Bradberry should have been resigned. Note this is not hindsight.
3. A returner should have been signed And Adoree Jackson never in a thousand years should have been returning.
4. They spent 18 million on the right guard, and have a hole that can neither pass pro or run block.
A top offensive guard to help Evans, solidify the line and things might be very different.
Bradberry and Adoree out there this week and things might be different.
give me just those three easily obtainable up-grades and I'd think they'd have at least one or more wins and be the favorite this week.
Those aren't reaches either. Teams regulary restructure contracts to push money into the next year. And yes, it's not ideal and yes it might compromise the future. But the projected 85 million could cover Barkley, Jones (should they decide to keep either or both) and still give them room.
BTW, the discredited Hernandez signed for 1.3 million and has, even if marginally, out-played the 6 million per year for three years Glowinsky.
The contract shows how risky free agent signings are, but the regime, so far, has been given a pass.

The Giants year-by-year records since their last playoff berth in 2016: 

    2017: 3-13
    2018: 5-11
    2019: 4-12
    2020: 6-10
    2021: 4-13

That's a combined 22-59 record and at no point during any time in any of those 5 seasons were the Giants above. 500. Not even 2-1 or 3-4. Never. But you claim that this team and franchise was "in a position to compete" just because Jones and Barkley were on their rookie contracts. The record over the last 4-5 years is why Dave Gettleman was fired and Joe Schoen was hired. The roster moves/decisions that Gettleman made did not work out and the results speak for themselves. 

Here's an article from February 3, 2022 in NJ.Com explaining the Giants cap situation that new GM Joe Schoen inherited. It wasn't some kind of PR campaign, it was the reality of the situation. The Giants were almost $11m OVER the salary cap heading into the 2022 Free Agency period. The Giants had to clear a lot of cap room. Here's an article from NJ.Com explaining how much cap room the Giants had one week after free agency started. Again, it was not some PR campaign by the Giants, you can go to spotrac.com or overthecap.com and have a really great idea of how much cap room the team has right now and how much they will have next year.  So it wasn't some kind of PR campaign, it was the reality of the situation Schoen had to navigate through.  

But it's pretty obvious what Joe Schoen's plan in year 1 was to: Get the Salary cap situation under control an in a much better situation for 2023 and beyond. And that plan is paying dividends. Schoen only signed two free agents to contracts that were longer for one year; Mark Glowinski (3-years, $18M) and Tyrod Taylor (2-years, $11M). Every other free agent signing was a one year deal. Schoen made it clear that he was not going to mortgage the future in year one of a rebuild by signing free agents to multi-year deals and structuring the contracts to push higher cap hits into 2023, 2024 and 2025 or beyond. A team that was 22-59 since their last playoff game is not worth investing in. And after Trading Toney for a 3rd and 6th round pick, the Giants will have 9 draft picks in the 2023 NFL Draft. And due to the disciplined approach to get the salary cap situation under control for 2023 and beyond, the Giants are projected to have the 3rd most cap room for 2023. 

If you're looking at things from the fact that the Giants started 6-1 and have struggled the last few weeks and are now 7-5-1 with a huge divisional game on the road vs. Commanders and have a lot of "roster problems" you will be upset. But if you are looking big picture, you will realize the Giants front office is actually operating like a franchise that is doing a proper rebuild. And no, that's not some PR spin from the Giants, that's the reality of the situation. 

As far as James Bradberry goes, the Giants had to cut him to just in order to sign their 2022 cap room because they didn't have the cap space. They tried to trade him because they found no suitors. They couldn't restructure his contract because he was in the final year. They either had to release him or work out a long term deal. Maybe they tried to work out a long term extension, but Bradberry didn't want to sign a long term deal until the 2023 free agency period when the salary cap is expected to increase even more. If you look around the league, a lot of players the past couple of seasons were signing 3 year deals because of the new TV contract deals that are expected to increase the salary cap by a lot over the coming seasons. If Bradberry signed a multi-year contract with the Eagles, I would've been wondering why didn't the Giants do that? But he only signed a one year deal with the Eagles, so you have to think he's looking to cash in during the 2023 free agency when the salary cap is expected to make a big jump from what it is in 2022. 

So if you want to look at 2022 in a vacuum and judge all the roster decisions based on results for 2022 alone, than yes, you will be upset and questioning of the moves they're making. But Schoen has a long term vision and his decisions in 2022 have shown that. 

[markc1914]

"Winning while rebuilding" was the exact tagline of the last general manager. You can't do both at once - it's one or the other.

It's like D-Day Invasion. There were two competing options of how to defend the beach - Rommell wanted the tanks close to the beach where he thought they'd likely land - his belief was you had to defeat an invasion before it establishes a beachhead. Gerd Von Rundstead wanted the tanks amassed in reserve to quickly counter attack en mass at the beach head and throw them back once knowing for sure where the landing was. Their commander in chief (you know who) - split the difference - trying to do both at once.

The rest, as they say, is history. The point is - you have to commit to one coherent plan and see it through.

[blu4ever]

Very good points, well expressed, I disagree though.
You ignore the projected 85 mil plus next year and the way teams maneuver that.
You ignore the Gowinsky signing for 18 mil.
And You misquote: I never said JUST because Jones and Barkley were cheap.
I thought Shep, Toney, Slayton and Golloday were going to be a decent receiving corp.
A superb secondary with McKinney, James, Adoree, Love, andA
Robinson and some nice depth.
Everything has gone wrong, Philadelphia, wash and Dallas, Det. stronger than might be expected and they're still in the hunt.

[EddieNYG]

Dec 13, 2022 21:34:01 GMT -5 blu4ever said:

Very good points, well expressed, I disagree though.
You ignore the projected 85 mil plus next year and the way teams maneuver that.
You ignore the Gowinsky signing for 18 mil.
And You misquote: I never said JUST because Jones and Barkley were cheap.
I thought Shep, Toney, Slayton and Golloday were going to be a decent receiving corp.
A superb secondary with McKinney, James, Adoree, Love, andA
Robinson and some nice depth.
Everything has gone wrong, Philadelphia, wash and Dallas, Det. stronger than might be expected and they're still in the hunt.

The Giants are projected to have $54M next year, not $85M. www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2023/

I brought up Glowinski. It was a 3 year, $18m contract. He wasn’t signed to a contract that is going to hurt the franchise in 2023 or 2024 in terms of having salary flexibility in 2023 and beyond.

Joe Schoen has a long term vision and outlook. The Giants have a much healthier salary cap situation moving forward. He has a much better idea of which players from the Gettleman era are worth keeping and which ones are not and also has a much better idea of what positions the team needs with year one of the current coaching staff.

The Giants got off to a 6-1 start because they are a well coached team that was able to make big plays in the 4th quarter and they pulled off a few upsets (Titans, Packers and Ravens off top of my head). Injuries started taking their toll, especially to the OL and in the secondary and they haven’t been able to run the ball as well as they did during 6-1 start and they’re really overmatched in the secondary with the loss of McKinney and Jackson.

I want this team to beat Washington and get to the playoffs. But I also think we have a GM doing the rebuild the right way based on what he’s done to fix our cap situation for next year and beyond. I don’t think the fan base is giving Schoen a pass, I just think the fan base knows this is not a quick fix.

[Carson53]

The Giants PR game has been weak for years now but they're hyping a bad product.

I agree let's just get into the playoffs. That would be great, it's a reasonable goal and far more than we could have expected a year ago.

[olderfan]

If the Giants get into the playoffs it would be a monumental achievement. Now its one game at a time and they need to topple the Commanders. A win will do them wonders.

[blu4ever]

I'd give anything (even considered suiting up) to give them one receiver, one guard, two corners and a safety

Yikes, shows how good Jones / Barkley are going to have to be.
PS MYgripe with glowinsky isn't the cap ramifications; it's 18mil for a ineffective player, who is not as good as the guy they gave away.